FatCogs Community Discussion Forums

Go Back   FatCogs Community Discussion Forums > Fat Chance Bicycles > General Fat Chance Discussion

General Fat Chance Discussion Anything and everything about the best mountain bikes ever made.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old February 1st, 2006, 6:53 AM   #1
fat-tony
Global Moderator
 
fat-tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 13th, 2004
Location: birmingham, al - usa
Posts: 711
Default poll: to drill or not to drill

That is the question.........
Finally getting around to ship the old Yo frame off for the re-spray. I am trying to decide if I should drill the drain hole in or not. I do not want to hurt the value of the frame in any way what so ever. WWFCD (what would fatcogs do)?
fat-tony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2006, 1:46 PM   #2
Toolmaker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 29th, 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7
Default

drill

if it rotted out you'ld be far more upset
__________________
Trust me, I'm a bicycle doctor
Toolmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2006, 1:57 PM   #3
Doug Carter
Global Moderator
 
Doug Carter's Avatar
 
Join Date: July 7th, 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 680
Default

Hmmm, I would have suggested NOT drilling but coating the base/interior of the seat tube with paint or other rust inhibitor. To me, these frames are far too rare to be cutting and drilling into, but that's just me. I wouldn't touch it with a drill, but I feel pain if my frame gets scratched.
__________________
.
2003 Serotta Fierte Cyclocross
2000 Gunnar Rockhound
1993 GT Xizang
Doug Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2006, 4:46 PM   #4
yo' djblu
Senior Member
 
yo' djblu's Avatar
 
Join Date: July 25th, 2004
Location: new jersey
Posts: 170
Default

Well, I would think about drilling. I say this ONLY because I bought a Yo! For my wife off ebay and when I got it and was cleaning it. I got it REALLY cheep for such a great bike and parts I should have known there was something hiding, I noticed something that looked like inside out rust. I poked at it with a rod and a small hole appeared right in the seat tube down by the bottom bracket. I was a bit pissed that the guy sold me the bike and never mentioned it to me but he gave me a few items to make up for it. I have noticed that I like the hole actually because it seems her seat tube is MUCH dryer on a constant basis. As for killing the value of the bike. Well I will never let it go I love it so much so I think it only adds to the value as there will hopefully never be any more rust in the seat tube as and water and what not will always drain out. Know what I mean?
yo' djblu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2006, 6:05 PM   #5
rody
Senior Member
 
rody's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 19th, 2005
Location: Wooster, Ohio
Posts: 287
Default

Tony,

Leave the power tools at home on the bench where they belong. Instead of drilling, this is what I suggest.

Strip the frame of parts and generously wrap all frame tubes with newspaper and electrical tape so that all finished surfaces are covered. Take your lovely frame to a framebuilder/painter/some dude in a back alley, anyone who has the capabilities of GLASS bead blasting and have them shoot the inside of the seat tube (should take 5 minutes and cost you about 10 bucks).

Blow the seat tube clean with filtered pressurized air and then coat the inside of the seat tube with JP Framesaver. Allow to dry before unwrapping the frame and building it back up. If the seat post is a bit sticky, wrap a dowel rod with 400 grit sand paper and lightly sand the interior two or three strokes at a time until it slides easily.

This process will protect the seat tube from interior rust as long as you don't leave your bike submerged in a lake over holiday .

cheers,

rody
Groovy Cycleworks
rody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2006, 8:22 PM   #6
Doug Carter
Global Moderator
 
Doug Carter's Avatar
 
Join Date: July 7th, 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 680
Default

That's the best suggestion.

A hole not only lets water out, but anyone who has seen the bottom of a late 80s Volkswagen Jetta or Golf door knows that they also allow the metal to RUST faster with more surface area exposed to moist air and MORE oxygen to accellerate the rusting process. A bike frame with holes in it not only allows water to escape, but moisture and condensation in the air to enter the tubes that you are trying to keep in a ferrous state. Your bike will rust likely FASTER while it sits in the garage on a humid day, from the inside-out, because of the holes you drill in your frame.

Short of sealing it up completely, sealing the exposed surface of any metal will eliminate rust better than any other method, and that includes drainage holes for water. If you have holes in open tubing, you'd probably be best off putting AT LEAST rubber plugs in them to allow you to air dry the inside if you need to, but also keep more moisture from entering the holes you have created.


Just my opinion... my bike never sees water.
__________________
.
2003 Serotta Fierte Cyclocross
2000 Gunnar Rockhound
1993 GT Xizang
Doug Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2006, 3:49 AM   #7
Yo Eddy!
Senior Member
 
Yo Eddy!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: July 16th, 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rody
Tony,

Leave the power tools at home on the bench where they belong. Instead of drilling, this is what I suggest.

Strip the frame of parts and generously wrap all frame tubes with newspaper and electrical tape so that all finished surfaces are covered. Take your lovely frame to a framebuilder/painter/some dude in a back alley, anyone who has the capabilities of GLASS bead blasting and have them shoot the inside of the seat tube (should take 5 minutes and cost you about 10 bucks).

Blow the seat tube clean with filtered pressurized air and then coat the inside of the seat tube with JP Framesaver. Allow to dry before unwrapping the frame and building it back up. If the seat post is a bit sticky, wrap a dowel rod with 400 grit sand paper and lightly sand the interior two or three strokes at a time until it slides easily.

This process will protect the seat tube from interior rust as long as you don't leave your bike submerged in a lake over holiday .

cheers,

rody
Groovy Cycleworks
WOW... I heard many opinions, but first time I take notice of this procedure. Nice

I put Mike Sander in my seattube. It is very likely the best rust prevention product there is. It is a sticky, thick grease with anti rust additives. It is a bit like butter. Unlike wax it crawls all the time, but it is more than thick and sticky enough to not wash away overtime. Another advantage over waxes is that it doesn't become cracky over time. Apply it and you are done for at least a decade!

Application is a bit complicated as the grease has to be heated (a waterboiler can do it) and you need a compressor and spraygun. I bought myself all equipment and did my car and a few others' bikes at the same time.

Pretty unsure whether the stuff is available in the US. Actually I think not.

Mike Sander
Langzeit Test (German)

I did not dril, but I think a hole won't hurt when all surfaces a protected well. The hole at least allows huge amounts of water to escape after a ride in wet or washing the bike.

On German board I even read some drilled holes in all tubes from inside out. I won't go that far

Melvin
__________________
Melvin
Yo rider, Wicked attitude
Yo Eddy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2006, 10:11 AM   #8
fat-tony
Global Moderator
 
fat-tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 13th, 2004
Location: birmingham, al - usa
Posts: 711
Default

I ain't drilling no hole!
fat-tony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2006, 5:57 PM   #9
yo' djblu
Senior Member
 
yo' djblu's Avatar
 
Join Date: July 25th, 2004
Location: new jersey
Posts: 170
Default

hmmmm.. maybe I better get my wifes bike fixed......I was talkin to a frame painter and was thinking about getting it painted and he does BASIC fixes.. I think this is a good way to go.. Right???
yo' djblu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 2nd, 2006, 8:34 PM   #10
rody
Senior Member
 
rody's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 19th, 2005
Location: Wooster, Ohio
Posts: 287
Default Def fix it

Hey Yo'djblu,


If it were my bike, I'd strip off the paint, drill out the rust hole to a slightly larger diameter to fresh steel and fill it with 56% silver.

Then...follow the previous advice from above on prepping and coating the seatube. Any reputable frame builder should be able to help you out.

cheers,

rody
Groovy Cycleworks
rody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2006, 12:20 AM   #11
Mojo Troll
Member
 
Join Date: July 18th, 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 38
Default

No holes for me, thanks.

Have'nt ran across any steal frames with holes drilled in them for drainage. Seen many Alum frames with drain holes, especially in the rear triangle, but not steal.

Otherwise, why would Chris have went through the trouble to seal ever tube possible? Take care of your seat tube and you should be fine for decades.
__________________
"We are a mirror of how we are treated. If we face or believe we face indifference, we will return indifference. On the other hand, if we are the object of genuine interest, we will respond with the same"- Mike Kazeef
Mojo Troll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2006, 5:58 AM   #12
scant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16th, 2004
Location: S.Wales UK
Posts: 481
Default

an interesting thread. I've seen older yetis (FROs) rust through due to lack of ventilation. My 2nd yo that I bought off this very forum came with a hole drilled in the bottom of the seatube & they did an exceptionally good job. I live & ride in a fairly wet climate (36in rain a year), trails saturated with surface water etc. FATs did come new with JP already sprayed down the seatube. While I doubt the JP installation process by FAT during construction was as anally adhered to as a devote FATcog remains to be seen. Given FATs still rusted through with JP installed, Id suggest regular maintenance & examination is key. Drilling holes & JP etc are the preventative measures that all too often are applied too late!

Anyone remeber the Action tec dry valve? screwed into the BB shell to allow moisture to escape.. wonder if they actually worked?
__________________
ta

scant
scant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2006, 8:00 AM   #13
rody
Senior Member
 
rody's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 19th, 2005
Location: Wooster, Ohio
Posts: 287
Default

"While I doubt the JP installation process by FAT during construction was as anally adhered to as a devote FATcog remains to be seen."

Anal? Me?....Mike, I'm touched

Honestly though, as special as our rides can be to us, why not take steps to protect them well so we can ride them forever? Creek crossings and mud make me smile, rust though, is a bugger

keep it groovy,

rody
rody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2006, 8:59 PM   #14
MikeyNYC
Senior Member
 
MikeyNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 8th, 2004
Location: NYC-NY
Posts: 308
Default poll: to drill or not to drill

My Yellow Wicked Frame which I think is a 1989, has a hole on the underside of the downtube and I took a photo of it and asked Wendyll if it was a drainage hole and she confirmed that it was a factory done drainage hole, not sure if it was standard or an option...See Pic:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 680W09 7 Hole.JPG (36.1 KB, 61 views)
MikeyNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th, 2006, 10:21 PM   #15
rody
Senior Member
 
rody's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 19th, 2005
Location: Wooster, Ohio
Posts: 287
Default

Gotta admit Mike, never saw a drain/vent hole quite like that


Logically, a weep hole is located at the lowest portion of a tube to allow the interior moisture to naturally condense and gravitate. The position of the hole in your downtube would require a significant amount of liquid buildup before it ever reached the "spill over" point. Thus, you could conceivably have a large quantity of moisture/liquid sitting in the downtube/bb intersection before it ever was relieved. Remember, water can go in as well as come out.

Conversely, I've seen vent holes (one at each end) to also allow for vapor to escape upwards. This is the popular construction to allow frames to be purged with argon during fabrication and "breathe" during the life of the frame. These, however, are usually located within tube intersections and not outwardly drilled into the body of the tubing.

With all the effort put into Fat's sealed construction, the position of your hole, and the above logic applied, I find it difficult to believe that was factory placed on purpose.

I hope someone can enlighten us further, but to me, it looks like a center drill mistake that was salvaged and passed off as a drainhole to save face (and $).

rody
Groovy Cycle Works
rody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2006, 9:25 AM   #16
MikeyNYC
Senior Member
 
MikeyNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 8th, 2004
Location: NYC-NY
Posts: 308
Default poll: to drill or not to drill

Rody-

I agree it's in a silly place on the tube-PLUS-Given that this tube is supposed to sealed from allowing any moisture to get in the tube in the first place, so it makes no sense to even have a drainage hole in this tube-it further adds to the Fat City ideaology/wacky mystique!

Anyone know what the deal is with this?

Michael-NYC
MikeyNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th, 2006, 10:19 AM   #17
Doug Carter
Global Moderator
 
Doug Carter's Avatar
 
Join Date: July 7th, 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 680
Default

I donno, personally I would question how much Wendyl knows about every frame that went out of Fat City, but that's just me. I'd tend to lean towards the words from the guys who actually made the frames, but that's just me.

__________________
.
2003 Serotta Fierte Cyclocross
2000 Gunnar Rockhound
1993 GT Xizang
Doug Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 9th, 2006, 11:52 AM   #18
MikeyNYC
Senior Member
 
MikeyNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 8th, 2004
Location: NYC-NY
Posts: 308
Default poll: to drill or not to drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Carter
I donno, personally I would question how much Wendyl knows about every frame that went out of Fat City, but that's just me. I'd tend to lean towards the words from the guys who actually made the frames, but that's just me.


I actually don't beleive ANYTHING that anyone from FAT CITY (back in Somerville) said or says...back in the day I would always ask a lot of questions and would typically get conflicting answers, so I think that they sort of just did what they wanted up there back then and loosely stuck to certain standards but did a lot of "experimenting". I also think they all inhaled a bit too much gas from the welding torches or paint fumes, which probably only added to their charm, of course!



Michael-NYC

Last edited by MikeyNYC; February 23rd, 2006 at 9:27 AM.
MikeyNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2006, 11:34 PM   #19
ridefat
Junior Member
 
ridefat's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 19th, 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 16
Default drillin'

I agree with Doug and would recommend not drilling into it. Pay attention to when and where you're riding and drain the thing when necessary. A good layer of grease on the seat collar, seatpost, and in the seat-tube can help keep water/grime out too.
ridefat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 7:19 AM   #20
fatf**knchance
Senior Member
 
fatf**knchance's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 2nd, 2004
Location: Westminster, Maryland
Posts: 109
Default

Would it be possible to drain it into the bottom bracket area like most frames do ?
fatf**knchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 12:45 PM   #21
MikeyNYC
Senior Member
 
MikeyNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 8th, 2004
Location: NYC-NY
Posts: 308
Default poll: to drill or not to drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatf**knchance
Would it be possible to drain it into the bottom bracket area like most frames do ?
Theoretically the only tube that can get water into it would be the seat tube since all of the Fat City bikes (at least the ones from the late 80's on?) are supposed to have each tube sealed off from each other and I've even heard that the water bottle braze-ons are little threaded tubes that will allow no moisture to enter into the frame-can anyone confirm this one?

So, I guess if water were to settle anywhere in your frame it would be at the bottom bracket shell, but if you suspect that water somehow got in there, just take out your seat flip the bike over pour out the water and let it dry...no? Therefore there also shouldn't be any need for a drainage hole anwhere but perhaps the bottom bracket shell...a lot of old road bikes have cut outs and holes all over their frames but I guess they don't go through muck like an MTB would...

Michael-NYC
MikeyNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 12:48 PM   #22
MikeyNYC
Senior Member
 
MikeyNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 8th, 2004
Location: NYC-NY
Posts: 308
Default poll: to drill or not to drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by fat-tony
That is the question.........
Finally getting around to ship the old Yo frame off for the re-spray. I am trying to decide if I should drill the drain hole in or not. I do not want to hurt the value of the frame in any way what so ever. WWFCD (what would fatcogs do)?
I just realized that my Titanium Fat Chance has an unthreaded hole in the BB shell, would that be a drainage hole? Ti won't rot out from moisture now would it?

Michael-NYC
MikeyNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 3:21 PM   #23
fatf**knchance
Senior Member
 
fatf**knchance's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 2nd, 2004
Location: Westminster, Maryland
Posts: 109
Default

but, if you could somehow drill a hole in the top of the bb shell (inside the seat tube - no visible hole)
water should not collect in the bottom. also would be very hard to enter. on most bikes if you take out the bottom bracket you can usually see a hole coming down from the seat tube. does this make sense?

yes, all of the waterbottle holes are sealed. look in the threads with a flashlight.
fatf**knchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2006, 11:18 PM   #24
MikeyNYC
Senior Member
 
MikeyNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 8th, 2004
Location: NYC-NY
Posts: 308
Post poll: to drill or not to drill

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatf**knchance
but, if you could somehow drill a hole in the top of the bb shell (inside the seat tube - no visible hole)
water should not collect in the bottom. also would be very hard to enter. on most bikes if you take out the bottom bracket you can usually see a hole coming down from the seat tube. does this make sense?

yes, all of the waterbottle holes are sealed. look in the threads with a flashlight.
I'm pretty sure that there already is a hole leading from the bottom of seat tube into to the BB shell on most Fat City frames, but I'm not 100% sure.
MikeyNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 3:40 AM   #25
Yo Eddy!
Senior Member
 
Yo Eddy!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: July 16th, 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 638
Default

My '95 Yo is open from seattube to BB, but a friends '92 Yo wasn't.
__________________
Melvin
Yo rider, Wicked attitude
Yo Eddy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 8:22 AM   #26
fatf**knchance
Senior Member
 
fatf**knchance's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 2nd, 2004
Location: Westminster, Maryland
Posts: 109
Default

most of the ones i have seen have a solid bb shell. it would probably be a real pain to have a hole drilled there. but it seems like a realistic idea because then the water would disapate from that area. did they start drilling them when they went to NY ? maybe the NY frames dont have the same rust issue ?
fatf**knchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 11:05 AM   #27
MikeyNYC
Senior Member
 
MikeyNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: August 8th, 2004
Location: NYC-NY
Posts: 308
Post poll: to drill or not to drill

I just checked my 1990 Wicked Fat Chance (the one with the goofy "drain hole" in that strange spot on the lower down tube) and it actually does have a hole leading from the seat tube into the BB shell...so go figure on what the drainage hole on the down tube is for??

I can't (or won't) check my 1988 Fat Chance or my 2000 Titanium Fat Chance, basically because I don't feel like removing the seat posts or BBs to check inside those frames...

FYI-I don't really ever ride in anything deep enough to submerge the BB of any frame that would get it filled with water to require draining, but I have been known to keep riding in order to get back home, if I get caught riding while it begins to rain really hard, soaking the bike from the seat post down or I've certainly hosed off a bike if it's really muddy or if I ride through Dog Crap hidden in leaves and don't want my wife complaining that I've brought a filthy stinky mess into our apartment! ;(

Michael-NYC
MikeyNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2006, 11:11 AM   #28
fat-tony
Global Moderator
 
fat-tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: October 13th, 2004
Location: birmingham, al - usa
Posts: 711
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yo Eddy!
My '95 Yo is open from seattube to BB, but a friends '92 Yo wasn't.
My 1993 Yo is not open from seat tube to bottom bracket. There also seems to be some type of filler in the bottom of the seattube so that you can not actually see the bottom bracket shell from inside looking down into the seattube. The filler is approximately 1 1/2" (4 cm) or so.
fat-tony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 17th, 2006, 12:41 PM   #29
Kirk Pacenti
Senior Member
 
Kirk Pacenti's Avatar
 
Join Date: December 10th, 2004
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 114
Default It's a "breather hole".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyNYC
My Yellow Wicked Frame which I think is a 1989, has a hole on the underside of the downtube and I took a photo of it and asked Wendyll if it was a drainage hole and she confirmed that it was a factory done drainage hole, not sure if it was standard or an option...See Pic:
If you have an original facatory paint job, perhaps they just forgot to fill the breather hole before paint.

If I recall correctly, all the frames have a "breather hole" there, which is filled after welding with a dab of braze rod. I think IF still does it this way; check their web site (step #60) http://www.ifbikes.com/building2/morefinishing.shtml

This seems strange to me because with as much air volume as there is in a tube, you could simply weld it up without any hot air trying to escape from through the weld bead.
__________________
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." Henry Ford

Last edited by Kirk Pacenti; March 17th, 2006 at 12:59 PM.
Kirk Pacenti is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.