Need help re anodizing

h1v9a8c8 · December 16th, 2013, 7:05 PM

I just picked this up off ebay. I put a boi I had on it but need help finding someone who ca re anodize the stem and crank arm. Any help would be great.

mainlyfats · December 17th, 2013, 12:09 PM

Paul Components has been doing some pretty intense anodizing lately, someone there might have a lead or let you in on a batch.

jpicard616 · December 17th, 2013, 4:17 PM

Contact Rob Squire at kilaueakid@hotmail.com. He lives in Minnesota and does excellent custom anodizing work. I found him on craigslist a while ago, and he's done a few things for me since then.

Stingercut · February 23rd, 2014, 5:56 PM

Has anybody tried to re-anodise a set of Grafton Speed Controller cantis or similar ? The Graftons have brass and steel components.

If so how did it turn out ?

jpicard616 · February 23rd, 2014, 7:10 PM

You cannot anodize brass or steel. The dying process only works for aluminum (titanium anodizing is a completely different process). That being said, the acid bath that parts go through for the anodizing process won't hurt little steel or brass parts, but those parts should be removed beforehand if possible so as not to cover up any of the aluminum and thus prevent the coloring of certain areas.

Stingercut · February 23rd, 2014, 9:33 PM

This sounds promising but the brass tube which fits over the brake boss, which is press fit into the canti arm, can't be removed.

I was concerned about this statement.

"Anything that isn't aluminium that is anodised will be dissolved so needs to be removed first! Some things can be sealed such as a ratchet ring in a rear hub, it's very time consuming though so please ask first!"

From here - intrincycle.co.uk - click on anodising link

If it is an issue what's the best method to shield the brass component to prevent it being dissolved ?

jpicard616 · February 24th, 2014, 12:26 AM

Oh ok. I thought you were talking about a little metal o-rings. Any part you dip in acid will corrode to some extent, but I doubt they will dissolve. So that brass tube that fits over the canti boss (I haven't seen Grafton's up close, but I'm assuming they're similar to Paul's) will get etched on every surface that comes in contact with the acid. If that happens, then they wouldn't fit nearly as well on the canti studs as they did before the acid bath.

In your case I would recommend not anodizing your brakes until you can find a way to press out those brass bushings, especially considering the rarity of those brakes... you wouldn't want to ruin them!

Stingercut · February 24th, 2014, 2:25 AM

Humm. That's the worry, so it's just not worth the risk

zonq · April 4th, 2014, 10:23 PM

I anodized my Graftons. ...sort of.

There is a bit of bother about those bushes. If you take the bushing out, and anodize the arm, when they strip it and electropolish it, it removes some thickness of metal off the surface, and how much depends on how long they leave it in, and how long they leave it in is entirely up to a multitude of factors. So afterward, when they anodize it again, and grow the oxide layer, that thickness isn't exactly the same. Plus, there'll be some wear in pushing them back in again... So there's a chance your bushings will be loose. If you leave the bushing in, it'll etch away at your brass and open up the ID of the bushing, which will then fit loose on the stud.

so I cheated and just anodized the L brackets, spring covers, & face plates (which actually came off another mismatched set anyway) to match the rest of the bike, avoiding any trouble with the bushings at all.

plz excuse the badly lit basement-at-night pic

But I have ano'd a few things with stainless steel inserts (bonded bolts & rivets) in them, to no negative effect.

zonq · April 4th, 2014, 10:31 PM

duplicate post

Stingercut · April 5th, 2014, 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zonq

I anodized my Graftons. ...sort of.

There is a bit of bother about those bushes. If you take the bushing out, and anodize the arm, when they strip it and electropolish it, it removes some thickness of metal off the surface, and how much depends on how long they leave it in, and how long they leave it in is entirely up to a multitude of factors. So afterward, when they anodize it again, and grow the oxide layer, that thickness isn't exactly the same. Plus, there'll be some wear in pushing them back in again... So there's a chance your bushings will be loose. If you leave the bushing in, it'll etch away at your brass and open up the ID of the bushing, which will then fit loose on the stud.

so I cheated and just anodized the L brackets, spring covers, & face plates (which actually came off another mismatched set anyway) to match the rest of the bike, avoiding any trouble with the bushings at all.

plz excuse the badly lit basement-at-night pic

But I have ano'd a few things with stainless steel inserts (bonded bolts & rivets) in them, to no negative effect.

Thanks for clearing this all up ! This is what I thought would happen and you have confirmed the issues. Useful to know that SS is ok during this process.Btw how did you remove and reinsert the brass bushing into the arm ?

zonq · April 17th, 2014, 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stingercut

Thanks for clearing this all up ! This is what I thought would happen and you have confirmed the issues. Useful to know that SS is ok during this process.Btw how did you remove and reinsert the brass bushing into the arm ?

When I have to press things out, I just find a rod slightly smaller than the bushings OD, & press them out with a hydraulic press. When reinserting them, freeze the bushing overnight and then insert it. Reduces the wear on the aluminum while pressing in.

Stingercut · April 17th, 2014, 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zonq

When I have to press things out, I just find a rod slightly smaller than the bushings OD, & press them out with a hydraulic press. When reinserting them, freeze the bushing overnight and then insert it. Reduces the wear on the aluminum while pressing in.

Thanks for that. Interesting, I thought the bushing would be pushed out after heating up the whole unit first, maybe with a heat gun, taking advantage of the differential expansion rates of Alu and brass before pressing the brass bush out.

Chris · August 2nd, 2014, 3:57 PM

Steel will dissolve. I've never had a problem with stripping anodising with brass inserts. It doesn't affect it like it does with aluminium.
Stainless steel does dissolve, I've had sulphuric acid burn through the bottom of a stainless container. It also gives off toxic chronic acid IIRC.

Stingercut · August 2nd, 2014, 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Steel will dissolve. I've never had a problem with stripping anodising with brass inserts. It doesn't affect it like it does with aluminium.
Stainless steel does dissolve, I've had sulphuric acid burn through the bottom of a stainless container. It also gives off toxic chronic acid IIRC.

Is this Chris from Intrincycle ?

hope it is.

This is an interesting thread with some conflicting opinion. We need to ensure the intel is 100% factually correct based on empiricle evidence. These parts aren't cheap and we don't want anybody trashing components unsuspectingly.

zonq · August 3rd, 2014, 10:17 AM

Yeah, it's tricky. Depends on what it is specifically and the process too. I recently had a little stainless insert in an aluminum part that burned the aluminum up around it pretty badly. But we also did a run of parts recently that all had these tiny steel bolts that couldn't be removed, which came through fine. ...I'd have to ask my guy what the story was with the bolts. Maybe they were plated. He's the chemist, I'm not, & I'd defer to Chris' experience as well.

Anyway, without knowing specific metals in any of these old bike parts, it's kind of a crapshoot stripping & reanodizing them sometimes. Never try reanodizing marinovative cheap trick brakes, for instance. A truly horrible alloy.

Stingercut · August 3rd, 2014, 6:26 PM

This is a helpful thread. Good point made about the quality of the alloy for for reanodising.

Chris · August 6th, 2014, 3:39 PM

Yes it's me

It would be interesting to know what the bolts were, perhaps they were electrically insulated from the aluminium being anodised somehow?

As you say alloy varies greatly, I've found some parts that are anodised black are hiding faults in the material. 6061 & 6083 comes out the best as it has a huger percentage of aluminium. The most easily available grade in the UK is 6082 (in USA too?) is almost as good.

I'm not really anodising anything at the moment as I'm too busy.

Ringle stuff is generally quite good, except the QR nuts which pitt.

April 4th, 2014, 10:31 PM	#10
zonq Senior Member Join Date: April 4th, 2014 Location: OnTheRoad Posts: 147	duplicate post Last edited by zonq; April 4th, 2014 at 11:28 PM.

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December 17th, 2013, 12:09 PM	#2
mainlyfats Senior Member Join Date: August 13th, 2004 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 763	Paul Components has been doing some pretty intense anodizing lately, someone there might have a lead or let you in on a batch.

December 17th, 2013, 4:17 PM	#3
jpicard616 Senior Member Join Date: July 31st, 2012 Location: Missoula MT/Birmingham AL Posts: 145	Contact Rob Squire at kilaueakid@hotmail.com. He lives in Minnesota and does excellent custom anodizing work. I found him on craigslist a while ago, and he's done a few things for me since then.

February 23rd, 2014, 5:56 PM	#4
Stingercut Senior Member Join Date: July 2nd, 2013 Location: London Posts: 602	Has anybody tried to re-anodise a set of Grafton Speed Controller cantis or similar ? The Graftons have brass and steel components. If so how did it turn out ?

February 23rd, 2014, 7:10 PM	#5
jpicard616 Senior Member Join Date: July 31st, 2012 Location: Missoula MT/Birmingham AL Posts: 145	You cannot anodize brass or steel. The dying process only works for aluminum (titanium anodizing is a completely different process). That being said, the acid bath that parts go through for the anodizing process won't hurt little steel or brass parts, but those parts should be removed beforehand if possible so as not to cover up any of the aluminum and thus prevent the coloring of certain areas.

February 23rd, 2014, 9:33 PM	#6
Stingercut Senior Member Join Date: July 2nd, 2013 Location: London Posts: 602	This sounds promising but the brass tube which fits over the brake boss, which is press fit into the canti arm, can't be removed. I was concerned about this statement. "Anything that isn't aluminium that is anodised will be dissolved so needs to be removed first! Some things can be sealed such as a ratchet ring in a rear hub, it's very time consuming though so please ask first!" From here - intrincycle.co.uk - click on anodising link If it is an issue what's the best method to shield the brass component to prevent it being dissolved ?

February 24th, 2014, 12:26 AM	#7
jpicard616 Senior Member Join Date: July 31st, 2012 Location: Missoula MT/Birmingham AL Posts: 145	Oh ok. I thought you were talking about a little metal o-rings. Any part you dip in acid will corrode to some extent, but I doubt they will dissolve. So that brass tube that fits over the canti boss (I haven't seen Grafton's up close, but I'm assuming they're similar to Paul's) will get etched on every surface that comes in contact with the acid. If that happens, then they wouldn't fit nearly as well on the canti studs as they did before the acid bath. In your case I would recommend not anodizing your brakes until you can find a way to press out those brass bushings, especially considering the rarity of those brakes... you wouldn't want to ruin them!

February 24th, 2014, 2:25 AM	#8
Stingercut Senior Member Join Date: July 2nd, 2013 Location: London Posts: 602	Humm. That's the worry, so it's just not worth the risk

April 4th, 2014, 10:23 PM	#9
zonq Senior Member Join Date: April 4th, 2014 Location: OnTheRoad Posts: 147	I anodized my Graftons. ...sort of. There is a bit of bother about those bushes. If you take the bushing out, and anodize the arm, when they strip it and electropolish it, it removes some thickness of metal off the surface, and how much depends on how long they leave it in, and how long they leave it in is entirely up to a multitude of factors. So afterward, when they anodize it again, and grow the oxide layer, that thickness isn't exactly the same. Plus, there'll be some wear in pushing them back in again... So there's a chance your bushings will be loose. If you leave the bushing in, it'll etch away at your brass and open up the ID of the bushing, which will then fit loose on the stud. so I cheated and just anodized the L brackets, spring covers, & face plates (which actually came off another mismatched set anyway) to match the rest of the bike, avoiding any trouble with the bushings at all. plz excuse the badly lit basement-at-night pic But I have ano'd a few things with stainless steel inserts (bonded bolts & rivets) in them, to no negative effect.

August 2nd, 2014, 3:57 PM	#14
Chris New Member Join Date: February 23rd, 2013 Location: UK Posts: 4	Steel will dissolve. I've never had a problem with stripping anodising with brass inserts. It doesn't affect it like it does with aluminium. Stainless steel does dissolve, I've had sulphuric acid burn through the bottom of a stainless container. It also gives off toxic chronic acid IIRC.

August 3rd, 2014, 10:17 AM	#16
zonq Senior Member Join Date: April 4th, 2014 Location: OnTheRoad Posts: 147	Yeah, it's tricky. Depends on what it is specifically and the process too. I recently had a little stainless insert in an aluminum part that burned the aluminum up around it pretty badly. But we also did a run of parts recently that all had these tiny steel bolts that couldn't be removed, which came through fine. ...I'd have to ask my guy what the story was with the bolts. Maybe they were plated. He's the chemist, I'm not, & I'd defer to Chris' experience as well. Anyway, without knowing specific metals in any of these old bike parts, it's kind of a crapshoot stripping & reanodizing them sometimes. Never try reanodizing marinovative cheap trick brakes, for instance. A truly horrible alloy.

August 3rd, 2014, 6:26 PM	#17
Stingercut Senior Member Join Date: July 2nd, 2013 Location: London Posts: 602	This is a helpful thread. Good point made about the quality of the alloy for for reanodising.

August 6th, 2014, 3:39 PM	#18
Chris New Member Join Date: February 23rd, 2013 Location: UK Posts: 4	Yes it's me It would be interesting to know what the bolts were, perhaps they were electrically insulated from the aluminium being anodised somehow? As you say alloy varies greatly, I've found some parts that are anodised black are hiding faults in the material. 6061 & 6083 comes out the best as it has a huger percentage of aluminium. The most easily available grade in the UK is 6082 (in USA too?) is almost as good. I'm not really anodising anything at the moment as I'm too busy. Ringle stuff is generally quite good, except the QR nuts which pitt.

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