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Old January 23rd, 2009, 1:18 AM   #1
laffeaux
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Default Ti Fat question

This image is taken from a current eBay auction. Is this weld under the down tube (on the sleeved section) normal?

http://www.ljschroeder.com/fat/P1210065.JPG
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 8:19 AM   #2
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yes. This auction is being watch over at retro bike and has alot of interest....

Whats up with the huge serial number on the auction bike?
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Old January 31st, 2009, 10:12 PM   #3
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Serial numbers for 1993 Ti bikes are high - guess they just wanted to get a lot frames out for exposure - hard to think that they were all pre-orders.

Scott any input on this for us?
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Old February 1st, 2009, 10:25 AM   #4
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So the serial # on mine is 008t3m. Was it the 8th build in 93 or the 8th built (with a serial#) over all?
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Old February 4th, 2009, 5:52 PM   #5
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8th built in 1993 - from what I understand. There were a few 1992 frames as well.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 7:34 PM   #6
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so what can you tell me about this one then?





just bought it,..
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Old February 18th, 2009, 1:12 PM   #7
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it is an early one. Gonna guess 92'. My early 93 has the same canti stop on the wish bone which is an older style. Maybe an early prototype since the serial is out of order.

Does the downtube and chainstayes have the sleeves? I cannot tell from the photo.
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Old March 14th, 2009, 2:06 PM   #8
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Default Seratoga made..

I think this frame is newer that 92, according to the format of the serial number. I'm not sure when the format was changed, but my guess is after the sell-out to Serotta, and moving to Seratoga, which will be sometime after 1995.

Sommerville-format ex.: 001T3M (number one Titanium 1993 size M)

Seratoga-format ex.: TFM0006 (Ti FAT size M number 6) In the Seratoga number the year is not reflected.

Another detail is that the Sommerville made Titanium's had the sleeve construction on the lower backstays and the downtube.

So Defiant: this frame is an early Seratgota-made Titanium.. My guess is 1995.

Beautiful frame!! Cherio! =)
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Old March 14th, 2009, 3:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonsaii
Another detail is that the Sommerville made Titanium's had the sleeve construction on the lower backstays and the downtube.
Somerville frames were made without the sleeve construction also.... My Ti is a '93 and it is without the sleeves.
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Previous bikes:
'92 M Yo Team Violet, stolen in '95 never recovered | '92 M Yo, rust in seat and down tube, not possible to save | '93 Klein Attitude Moonrise, stolen in '95 never recovered | '98 Trek 9900 OCLV, sold
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Old March 14th, 2009, 4:22 PM   #10
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Okay, really?

I was'nt aware of that. What is the SN on your Titanium? So early to; 93' without sleeves..

-bons
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Old March 15th, 2009, 2:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonsaii View Post
What is the SN on your Titanium?
-bons
Ha ha, come on....you know my Ti doesn't have a s/n as it was stolen in '94 and retrieved in '96. The morons that stole it removed the s/n...Don't have the receipt anymore so I cant retrieve the s/n but I'm 99% sure mine is a '93 Somerville made frame. Could be a late one as I have seen '93 models with the sleeve also.

Anyways, I just wanted to point out that not all Somerville produced frames were with the sleeve construction. If you look at this post from Scott Bengtson you will see that he was involved in the making of both sleeved and machined frames and he left FCC after the shut down of Somerville in Oct '94. Hence, FCC produced both frames at the Somerville factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokies View Post
My early 93 has the same canti stop on the wish bone which is an older style. Maybe an early prototype since the serial is out of order.
I have seen the canti stop on the wishbone as late as on '95 models, it is also pictured in the '95 catalog from FCC. So that doesn't necessary mean it is an older style.
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Previous bikes:
'92 M Yo Team Violet, stolen in '95 never recovered | '92 M Yo, rust in seat and down tube, not possible to save | '93 Klein Attitude Moonrise, stolen in '95 never recovered | '98 Trek 9900 OCLV, sold
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Old March 15th, 2009, 4:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrannsten View Post
Ha ha, come on....you know my Ti doesn't have a s/n as it was stolen in '94 and retrieved in '96.
Sorry, I thought you said you had the original receipt. Guess I did'nt listen that good! My bad.. =)

- bons
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Old March 15th, 2009, 5:06 PM   #13
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Default yes it is seratoga build ;)

thanks for the comments guys.

from what i understand the frame i have might have been build during the whole Fat/Serotta transition.
Build at Fat, finished(serial put on) at Serotta
if i compare it with the Serotta TiMax i have form the same period the Serial number setup looks the same (TM46002)
I guess it is:
T = Titanium
F = Fat (as an add to the Serotta Serial; The Serotta "S" in the serial could be misstaken for the Small size ?)
M = Size M
006 = Number



might even be build by the same people

(Serotta is waiting for the repaint at the moment)

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Old March 16th, 2009, 12:30 PM   #14
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I have a 94 fat that looks just like that - external butts only (no sleeves), but canti stop post on the wishbone. It has a made in NY sticker, but I'm not sure where it was made. will post the Serial number tonight.

-Raj
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Old March 17th, 2009, 11:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant View Post

from what i understand the frame i have might have been build during the whole Fat/Serotta transition.
Build at Fat, finished(serial put on) at Serotta


This did actually cross my mind earlier, so my supports on that theory. The sn on your frame looks hand-punched, while (most of) the Seratoga made frames has a more "machine-printed" feel to it. Both my Seratoga frames has it, anyways..

Repeat; beautiful frame!
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Old March 19th, 2009, 1:33 PM   #16
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Hiya Folks,
as a base line, my small medium was the first out of the door at the factory swap.
six month wait, got mine on the 15/3/95.

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Old March 19th, 2009, 1:57 PM   #17
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.......and 1180 frames later

not sure if thats just ti frames, or that includes the other models

reckon this might be close to the end of the run.......late '99

anyone know?

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Old March 19th, 2009, 11:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-fat-man View Post
.......and 1180 frames later

not sure if thats just ti frames, or that includes the other models

reckon this might be close to the end of the run.......late '99

anyone know?

ti-fat-man:
Mine was one of the last ones out the door, after Fat City shut the VT doors. I bought it directly from Wendyll as a frame that she still had and said was made in the last run at Serotta to use up the remaining materials to recoup some costs (materials alone for these frames were quite pricey), so yours looks like it's part of the same batch as my frame which is #: TF ML 1176 but yours is actually probably one of the last ones if not THE last Ti Fat Chance made, as mine was probably made before yours but sold after yours was, as I bought mine in 2001, but didn't actually get it delivered until early 2002. When did you buy yours?
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Old March 20th, 2009, 3:08 AM   #19
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Default Amazing !!

Howdy!

This is so cool! The first and last NY-made Titanium's in one thread!

I guess the arguments earlier in the thread, with respect to year of manufacture and serial numbers, are proven by your knowledge and good pictures.

I think this is very interesting, even though I don't own a Titanium.
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Old March 20th, 2009, 9:03 AM   #20
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Hmm. My bike has NY stickers, but has the number: TF1013. I got it in '94 or '95.
No sleeves on the down tube. Is this one of the "transition" frames - made in MA, shipped out of NY?

Thanks,
-Raj
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Old March 20th, 2009, 11:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeves View Post
Hmm. My bike has NY stickers, but has the number: TF1013. I got it in '94 or '95.
No sleeves on the down tube. Is this one of the "transition" frames - made in MA, shipped out of NY?

Thanks,
-Raj
Could you show a pictures from your serial number?
I think yours might be TFL 013
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Old March 20th, 2009, 11:25 AM   #22
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Thanks Defiant - I bet you are correct. I will post some pictures soon.
-Raj
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Old March 20th, 2009, 5:26 PM   #23
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Default Ti Fat serial numbers

Michael,

we bought ours from Wendyll at the same time but I had never compared serial numbers; mine is TF ML 1178 (just 2 after yours!)

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Old March 21st, 2009, 3:31 AM   #24
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I also have TFL1127
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Old March 21st, 2009, 8:02 AM   #25
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I have tfm032 no sleeves, New York decal.
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Old March 21st, 2009, 10:50 PM   #26
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Post Ti Fat question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-fat-man View Post
Hiya Folks,
as a base line, my small medium was the first out of the door at the factory swap.
six month wait, got mine on the 15/3/95.


ti-fat-man

I see from this photo that you have Cook Bros Racing RSR Crank arms on a NY Made Ti Fat Chance?

What brand/size bottom bracket are you running with those cranks, as I want to put my Cook Bros. RSR cranks on my M/L Ti Fat, but I think that I need a very long BB spindle so the crank arms and the inner "granny" ring will properly clear the chain stays
...Any advice would be very helpful!!

Thanks,

Michael-NYC
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Old March 24th, 2009, 10:28 PM   #27
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Default call phil

get a phil spindle -

i think mine was a custom job -

just tell them how long - and they will make it.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 4:05 AM   #28
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Hiya Michael,

I have used a RaceFace Taperlock steel b/b, their longest length (from memory 113mm).
The steel model has the red cups, but i ordered a pair of blue cups that come with ti axle bottom bracket and swapped them over.........really to match the decals.
I prefer to use a smaller granny ring, therefore gone with a 24T buzzsaw.
Good clearance on the ring/chainstay, without having the crank-arms overly wide.
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Old March 25th, 2009, 6:55 AM   #29
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I have TFM-1131 Serrotta made
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Old March 27th, 2009, 12:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commander View Post
get a phil spindle -

i think mine was a custom job -

just tell them how long - and they will make it.
Thanks!
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Old March 27th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-fat-man View Post
Hiya Michael,

I have used a RaceFace Taperlock steel b/b, their longest length (from memory 113mm).
The steel model has the red cups, but i ordered a pair of blue cups that come with ti axle bottom bracket and swapped them over.........really to match the decals.
I prefer to use a smaller granny ring, therefore gone with a 24T buzzsaw.
Good clearance on the ring/chainstay, without having the crank-arms overly wide.
Thanks!
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Old March 29th, 2009, 5:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbrsddn View Post
I have TFM-1131 Serrotta made
picture!
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Old March 30th, 2009, 6:23 AM   #33
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Here's a recent pic
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Old March 30th, 2009, 8:19 AM   #34
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Just so I know I'm not going after the wrong part, my '93 Ti Fat takes a 34.9 bottom pull front der, yes?
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Old March 30th, 2009, 8:21 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upchuck View Post
Just so I know I'm not going after the wrong part, my '93 Ti Fat takes a 34.9 bottom pull front der, yes?

correct
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Old March 30th, 2009, 11:00 AM   #36
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Thanks! Ok, next question:

What length spindle do I need if I'm using an M900 XTR crankset? I have a new UN71 127mm in my parts bin. Too long?
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Old March 31st, 2009, 2:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upchuck View Post
Thanks! Ok, next question:

What length spindle do I need if I'm using an M900 XTR crankset? I have a new UN71 127mm in my parts bin. Too long?

Yeah, the 127mm will be too long.

The m900 crankset is supposed to use a 107-113mm spindle. However, when I built up my early Fat Ti I found that I needed to go wider than "recommended" in order to have the rings clear the chain stays. I used a Ritchey Logic crank, which is supposed to use a 120mm spindle, but it ended u using a 130mm (although a 126ish length would be better - but I didn't have one in my parts bin).

If you have a 113mm try it to see if it works. If you're buying a BB, I'd suggest going a little wider (maybe 118?).
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Old March 31st, 2009, 3:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
Yeah, the 127mm will be too long.

The m900 crankset is supposed to use a 107-113mm spindle. However, when I built up my early Fat Ti I found that I needed to go wider than "recommended" in order to have the rings clear the chain stays. I used a Ritchey Logic crank, which is supposed to use a 120mm spindle, but it ended u using a 130mm (although a 126ish length would be better - but I didn't have one in my parts bin).

If you have a 113mm try it to see if it works. If you're buying a BB, I'd suggest going a little wider (maybe 118?).
Thanks for the feedback, EL! I was actually hoping you'd see this post as I knew you had recent first hand experience. I'll try a 118 and see if it works.
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