Merlin = Ti Yo Eddy

rody

Member
I understand what Bssc is saying Kirk. In the early 90's, when Ti was just coming into it's own, we were forced to build the frame's riding characteristics around what tubing was available. Most often, the early frames were built of .5" to 1.25" straight gauge 3/2.5 tubing, often available in 16' lengths plus drops.

What would normally be a tube for tube swap in dimensions (length, diameter, wall thickness) to copy a steel Yo to a Ti Yo would produce ride characteristics that were starkly different. In order to produce a comparable riding experience, changes in the tubing specs, or "geometry", was necessary. Increase the diameter of the downtube, steepen the head angle, shorten the chainstay, etc...

While the Yo was the platform for the early Merlins, the early Merlins were not simply a YO in Ti, but a carefully crafted frame to mimic the ride characteristics that were so successful.

cheers,

rody
Groovy Cycleworks
 

Bssc

New member
rody said:
I understand what Bssc is saying Kirk. In the early 90's, when Ti was just coming into it's own, we were forced to build the frame's riding characteristics around what tubing was available. Most often, the early frames were built of .5" to 1.25" straight gauge 3/2.5 tubing, often available in 16' lengths plus drops.

What would normally be a tube for tube swap in dimensions (length, diameter, wall thickness) to copy a steel Yo to a Ti Yo would produce ride characteristics that were starkly different. In order to produce a comparable riding experience, changes in the tubing specs, or "geometry", was necessary. Increase the diameter of the downtube, steepen the head angle, shorten the chainstay, etc...

While the Yo was the platform for the early Merlins, the early Merlins were not simply a YO in Ti, but a carefully crafted frame to mimic the ride characteristics that were so successful.

cheers,

rody
Groovy Cycleworks



Great same book different language, thanks. I was at a bit of a loss of how to describe what actually went on so all could understand.
 

outside!

New member
scant said:
outside! Could you post up a picture please?
biggrin.gif

Scant, sorry it took so long, summer vacation and all that. Here is a picture of my "Fat Bastard" after I cleaned it up and rebuilt the Manitou 3 (replaced a Manitou 2 with cracked crown which replace the original Manitou that had rusted inner legs). Finding Manitou 3 parts is not easy.

It still rides great, but my old butt likes rear suspension when I am off road, so this bike will be my townie and touring bike. I'd like to take it easy on the old components anyway. Kind of funny when I remember how I used to catch air off road with slick tires and fully loaded panniers. Sure did make the ride home from work more fun though.

Regarding the discussion on frame geometery, I have to admit I don't know what the frame angles are. I do know that it felt similar to a Yo Eddy that I rode before and after I got my bike. Maybe I should contact Litespeed and see if they have any info, they have always been helpful int he past. I will reiterate that back when I was shopping for a custom Ti bike, the guy on the phone at Merlin was a jerk. Don't know who he was, but he definitely lost a sale for Merlin that day. Forgive me for wanting top routed cables and rack mounts! I've kind of never cared for Merlin since then.

Best to all!

Scott in San Diego
 

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