Fat Frame wanted SOON

Hi guys, my friend and I want to start a small garage business building up fat chances from the frame and restoring them to original factory state. In order to kick off this business, we we need a FAT frame, possibly with a fork. Condition preferably a 6-10/10, 10 being mint for around 250 dollars. Thank you very much!
 

Kirk Pacenti

New member
Hi guys, my friend and I want to start a small garage business building up fat chances from the frame and restoring them to original factory state. In order to kick off this business, we we need a FAT frame, possibly with a fork. Condition preferably a 6-10/10, 10 being mint for around 250 dollars. Thank you very much!


These things are extremely rare and most go for much more than $250.00.
Why not make reproductions? I know a couple guys who could help you out... though, the reproductions would cost a lot more than $250.00 too.;)

Cheers,
KP
 

BostonBobby

New member
I dont think you could get a 6-10, 10 being mint univega for $250.
I have bought scratched and rusted yo frames for over $400.
These bikes are very rare- just do a search for fat chances for sale compared to any other bike and it will have one of the least results if not "the least"! So good luck with that! AND IF YOU SEEN ANY FAT CHANCE SELLING FOR LESS THAN $200 I WONDER WHY YOU DIDNT BUY IT?
 

yo-Nate-y

Moderator
Staff member
I've sold bikes here for cheap, and bought them for cheap. $250 for a mint FORK is a good deal, much less for a whole frame set. But I passed along a nice Yo frame a while back for about that. I don't think a refinish and profit job will get the same kind of camaraderie though...
 
I dont think you could get a 6-10, 10 being mint univega for $250.
I have bought scratched and rusted yo frames for over $400.
These bikes are very rare- just do a search for fat chances for sale compared to any other bike and it will have one of the least results if not "the least"! So good luck with that! AND IF YOU SEEN ANY FAT CHANCE SELLING FOR LESS THAN $200 I WONDER WHY YOU DIDNT BUY IT?

I didn't have $200! I'm only 14! But I do happen to know a lot about bikes!
 
Free Economic advice (no commission)

I didn't have $200! I'm only 14! But I do happen to know a lot about bikes!

Dear Yellowhandlebars- I like your enthusiasm and admire your initiative in attempting to start a company. I suspect the nature of the business you whish to create is driven by your interest in bicycles. Further, I assume that you wish to take in more money than you spend in this endeavor (in other words “make a profit”). Please understand that I do not wish to make fun of your efforts even though the following comments may seem harsh. I only wish to pass along some of the concepts of basic economics which, unfortunately, do not work in favor of your business idea.

Concept 1) :confused: “Adding value” To be successful (make a profit) a business that sells things needs to add value to a product or service so they can re-sell it at a price higher than they paid. Fat City Cycles took chromoly tubing, drop outs and braze-ons (worth - what, $100 - $150?) from other vendors and added value by shaping and welding these pieces into bicycle frames (by using using lots of labor - a much greater cost). They further added value by buying paint (cheap) and doing a great job of painting them (labor costs again) not just for rust protection but to make them into beautiful bicycle frames that most of us like not just for the ride but also for the appearance. I’m not clear about how you hope to acquire, have shipped to you, add parts, and then ship to customers the frames (or complete bicycles). If you think that the cleaning up, putting parts on a frame, and/or assembling a complete bike is the value added, I am afraid you are mistaken because almost all of us on this forum (who are your potential customers) can do this, and we all have friends in bike shops (and other sources) that can get us parts at near bike shop prices.

Concept 2) “Market Advantage”. Unfortunately there is no wholesale source for you to buy your product (Fat Chance bikes). All of us can get the same frames at the same prices as you. Because of this, you have no market advantage over us or anybody. Put differently, you can’t get the frames cheaper than your prospective customers. Fat-Tony made a joke when offering to pay $1 more than you for a frame in good condition – but he points out a fatal flaw in your business plan. You have no source that all of us of us don’t also have. Also, most of us probably have access to more money than you (it’s harder at your age to come up with money than for an older guy like me). So you’re competing at a market disadvantage against people who are willing to spend more money (driving your costs up), and because don't have a way to add value, and don't have an advantage in the market, you'll have trouble with meeting the condition of Concept 3.

Concept 3) “Income must be greater than costs”. In bicycling economics the cost of a frame built up with parts (that's your income) is less than the cost of the same frame and parts separately (that's you expenses - and this is a huge problem for you).
Example: If you buy a 1987 Wicked frame and unicrown fork for $300, clean it up, (maybe get it painted/powder coated cheaply for $100 plus shipping round trip), spend another $700 on parts you will then have a built-up bike that cost you more than $1,000 (including shipping, insurance, ....) but it's only worth about $600 - $700! . So, how do the big bike companies do it? Trek can do it because Trek gets parts below wholesale by ordering in groups of 100,000 (that's a market advantage not available to you) which reduces their costs greatly, has parts made for them cheaply that they put their name on (Icon, Bontrager, Rolf...), which adds value (also not an option for you), and manufactures their own frames (some of them [or they have them made super cheap in foreign factories in groups of 100,000 at a time]). So Trek adds value by either manufacturing or working with super cheap bike-making factories, their market advantage to get everything cheaper than we can, which allows them to keep their costs below their income.

Most people on this forum are into bikes for fun but we'd be hard-pressed to make more than a few bucks on a transaction with a fellow COGer. They like fixing them up, adding their own little touches, checking out how others built their bikes. Bikes are fun to ride and may be a good investment in your physical and mental health, but I always cringe when I see an ad where somebody claims they’ve “invested” so much in their bike. In my opinion, a bike purchase is not similar to an investment – there may be an expectation that the bike will yield a great ride, but only a fool expects a positive return on the money "invested".


Best of luck Yellow. I think you’ve got a bright future, just not with this particular idea. –Max
 
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tvcreative

New member
have at it man

Have fun
stay out of the bars
hang with your family
tinker with bikes
and ride, ride, ride

keep a big smile

most of all be happy that the cottage industry you are hoping to craft, is based on passion not greed. Forget about the model stated above, (many things he is right about) just do it, you'll find people that don't want to do the dirty work and just want a bike - finished - that reminds them of the good ol days...
 
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Dear Yellowhandlebars- I like your enthusiasm and admire your initiative in attempting to start a company. I suspect the nature of the business you whish to create is driven by your interest in bicycles. Further, I assume that you wish to take in more money than you spend in this endeavor (in other words “make a profit”). Please understand that I do not wish to make fun of your efforts even though the following comments may seem harsh. I only wish to pass along some of the concepts of basic economics which, unfortunately, do not work in favor of your business idea.

Concept 1) :confused: “Adding value” To be successful (make a profit) a business that sells things needs to add value to a product or service so they can re-sell it at a price higher than they paid. Fat City Cycles took chromoly tubing, drop outs and braze-ons (worth - what, $100 - $150?) from other vendors and added value by shaping and welding these pieces into bicycle frames (by using using lots of labor - a much greater cost). They further added value by buying paint (cheap) and doing a great job of painting them (labor costs again) not just for rust protection but to make them into beautiful bicycle frames that most of us like not just for the ride but also for the appearance. I’m not clear about how you hope to acquire, have shipped to you, add parts, and then ship to customers the frames (or complete bicycles). If you think that the cleaning up, putting parts on a frame, and/or assembling a complete bike is the value added, I am afraid you are mistaken because almost all of us on this forum (who are your potential customers) can do this, and we all have friends in bike shops (and other sources) that can get us parts at near bike shop prices.

Concept 2) “Market Advantage”. Unfortunately there is no wholesale source for you to buy your product (Fat Chance bikes). All of us can get the same frames at the same prices as you. Because of this, you have no market advantage over us or anybody. Put differently, you can’t get the frames cheaper than your prospective customers. Fat-Tony made a joke when offering to pay $1 more than you for a frame in good condition – but he points out a fatal flaw in your business plan. You have no source that all of us of us don’t also have. Also, most of us probably have access to more money than you (it’s harder at your age to come up with money than for an older guy like me). So you’re competing at a market disadvantage against people who are willing to spend more money (driving your costs up), and because don't have a way to add value, and don't have an advantage in the market, you'll have trouble with meeting the condition of Concept 3.

Concept 3) “Income must be greater than costs”. In bicycling economics the cost of a frame built up with parts (that's your income) is less than the cost of the same frame and parts separately (that's you expenses - and this is a huge problem for you).
Example: If you buy a 1987 Wicked frame and unicrown fork for $300, clean it up, (maybe get it painted/powder coated cheaply for $100 plus shipping round trip), spend another $700 on parts you will then have a built-up bike that cost you more than $1,000 (including shipping, insurance, ....) but it's only worth about $600 - $700! . So, how do the big bike companies do it? Trek can do it because Trek gets parts below wholesale by ordering in groups of 100,000 (that's a market advantage not available to you) which reduces their costs greatly, has parts made for them cheaply that they put their name on (Icon, Bontrager, Rolf...), which adds value (also not an option for you), and manufactures their own frames (some of them [or they have them made super cheap in foreign factories in groups of 100,000 at a time]). So Trek adds value by either manufacturing or working with super cheap bike-making factories, their market advantage to get everything cheaper than we can, which allows them to keep their costs below their income.

Most people on this forum are into bikes for fun but we'd be hard-pressed to make more than a few bucks on a transaction with a fellow COGer. They like fixing them up, adding their own little touches, checking out how others built their bikes. Bikes are fun to ride and may be a good investment in your physical and mental health, but I always cringe when I see an ad where somebody claims they’ve “invested” so much in their bike. In my opinion, a bike purchase is not similar to an investment – there may be an expectation that the bike will yield a great ride, but only a fool expects a positive return on the money "invested".


Best of luck Yellow. I think you’ve got a bright future, just not with this particular idea. –Max

Oh, I completely understand, as my dad helps me with these things and is a business major. Sorry to again bring it up, but my original request was for FAT frames, not specifying what kind of Fat I want. The wicked, not yo, that I wanted to purchase was a bike to practice on and for later, personal use. Reply?
(I also have completely taken apart an old Trek 850 and its components, lubed up the parts and changed the chain and all cables, and I have experience under my belt, too. My dad has been doing this for 35 years.)
 
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Have fun
stay out the bars
hang with your family
tinker with bikes
and ride, ride, ride

keep a big smile

most of all be happy that the cottage industry you are hoping to craft, is based on passion not greed. Forget about the model stated above, (many things he is right about) just do it, you'll find people that don't want to do the dirty work and just want a bike - finished - that reminds them of the good ol days...
Thanks!
 

AB

Active member
Hi guys, my friend and I want to start a small garage business building up fat chances from the frame and restoring them to original factory state. In order to kick off this business, we we need a FAT frame, possibly with a fork. Condition preferably a 6-10/10, 10 being mint for around 250 dollars. Thank you very much!

Oh, I completely understand, as my dad helps me with these things and is a business major. Sorry to again bring it up, but my original request was for FAT frames, not specifying what kind of Fat I want. The wicked, not yo, that I wanted to purchase was a bike to practice on and for later, personal use. Reply?
(I also have completely taken apart an old Trek 850 and its components, lubed up the parts and changed the chain and all cables, and I have experience under my belt, too. My dad has been doing this for 35 years.)


i see similarities between
old cars or motorcycles
 
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Funny i don't see any similarities between these posts.

I suggest you restore old cars or motorcycles that way you may be able to actually make money at your business.

Funny? For some reason I've taken offense to both of your posts now. I also do not have access to motorcycles and I don't just pick up junk cars and restore them. I like bikes much more. I'm now regretting giving my age, as I'm now getting the jist that im thought of as "inferior".
 

tvcreative

New member
AB

How about Cycleart? How about Rody? There are plenty of people who bring life back to vintage bikes for a profit...each with their own brand of specialization and passion

Were you never a kid with a dream?

leave the guy alone...and let him have fun figuring things out.

be positive...
 
I could tell you i'm 12. Doing well at school and getting a good education should be your primary concerns especially at 14 - not starting a bike restoration business.

BTW how many successful bike restoration companies are you aware of?

Perhaps you should consider mechanical engineering.

Enjoy your youth

I've completely taken apart and repaired and lubed up an old Trek 850 in less than 3 days.
 
AB

How about Cycleart? How about Rody? There are plenty of people who bring life back to vintage bikes for a profit...each with their own brand of specialization and passion

Were you never a kid with a dream?

leave the guy alone...and let him have fun figuring things out.

be positive...

Thanks man... You understand. Im much better at this than most people think. I truly love cycling and if I could do something for the rest of my life, I would. Besides, this will probably kick off much closer to the summer.
 
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